[PA voice] mandatory warden meeting, conference room...

[dealwiththe]

yooooooo so in the course of Lucifer's hazing introduction to our lovely prison ship, he had a conversation with Volk! He asked Volk for some feedback, and promised to bring said feedback to all the wardens for discussion!

here is what Volk gave him! I'm posting this in the ooc comm because I'm not sure how, or even if, we should thread out the discussion IC, but we should certainly discuss it here!

Lucifer will attempt to get all the wardens together to talk about this, FIRST ALL-WARDEN MANDATORY MEETING???? So I guess if your warden character would opt out lmk. He will gather them all, and show them Volk's list, and basically be like "okay let's discuss".

From Lucifer's perspective, what's most important to him is honesty and transparency between wardens and inmates - he believes they need to build some trust, and that wardens need to do some things to earn some trust, so if anything on this list is at all actionable, they should do it. He will be particularly keen on, for instance, allowing inmates to see what is actually in their files, and if at all possible to open up better lines of communication between inmates and Navarch.

Most of the other stuff Lucifer won't necessarily have an opinion about, seeing as he's both brand-new and also not human (which means he has very little knowledge of human physiological needs, especially since all his "inmates" back home are lol dead), so he'll leave discussion of that stuff to other wardens who presumably have more expertise.

ANYWAY THAT'S WHAT I GOT. PLZ DISCUSS. If you want to thread any of this out IC lmk, I am happy to thread out some discussions/chit chat around this! And obvs if anything needs to be run by the mods, let's do it.

WARDEN INMATE TRUST FALLS

Comments

[professor_charisma]

This guy will be there, he's already read the list and agrees with a lot of it. And also even though he's only Volk's temp-probably-perm warden and promised him that he will take stuff like this seriously and do what he can. So here he is!!

[helenite]

alice squinting at the list and back like "wait did claire abdicate being his temp? can you do that?"

[nineteenfortyfive]

Claire will have the most OPINIONS about #3 and agree that there shouldn't be a time when an inmate cannot access the infirmary. Her suggestion will be a warden on watch 24/7 because as much as free access to the Auto Doc is probably harmless, she's already had inmates casing the locked cabinets.

12 hour shifts? What, no one jumping at the idea????? Okay maybe 8... :( Obviously she will volunteer to take the majority of the time and will probably mention if anyone wants some basic medical/sanitary knowledge she's down to teach.

[dealwiththe]

Doctor Claire (yes that is what he is going to call her), even the Devil needs to sleep sometimes!

But he will sigh offer himself up for some "guarding the infirmary" shifts. Just... not twelve hours okay!!!!

But he accepts that he will probably have to play the muscle here sometimes, since he's invulnerable and all :||||

[helenite]

points out a warden should also be on watch for the auto doc in case it goes horribly wrong and turns evil like HAL but with a bonesaw

also asks if they have any ideas for how to handle power surge/outage issues since that's apparently already been a thing

(she'll volunteer but is limited to band-aids)

[omniavincit]

William will suggest asking the Navarch for some kind of emergency access button to the infirmary, in case an inmate is grievously injured or desperately needs access. Maybe, like the gun tech, it can have a biometric component--registering who used it and when.

(This isn't to replace staff, just supplement it, ALTHOUGH he would raise the issue of people potentially being deterred by, uh. The devil himself being there.)

He'd also suggest putting some kind of magical wards on substances inmates shouldn't have access to (addictive drugs and such) but has no idea how practical this suggestion is (or isn't). He's pretty hands-off (and kind of twitchy) about drug/meds stuff because he knows he's not qualified to deal with it and his brother-in-law's an addict.

Not a Warden, but chiming in

[lessandmorethanhuman]

Claire can feel free to point out that she and Alex went over tools/stuff in the Infirmary, and he's willing to pull shifts in there to0. Obviously he'll still need a 'babysitter' warden, but that might help some. (Especially if the wardens change shifts while he's on shift--that gives them continuity for what's going on.)

[spanning]

sooo uh aki probably has legit first aid training, just bc sometimes you get stabbed on the job and can't get to a hospital for 3 days. but he also only has one arm and is not nearly as used to this as he'd like, so he'd be pretty blunt about having limited dexterity. and he's not really...internally motivated to learn more, sorry claire.

but that might mean he has more knowledge than most??? other wardens, which is terrifying, and he would tiredly offer to help out on the more medically-related front if necessary.

[professor_charisma]

Waver knows how to do some magicy medicine things, he can help supply some stuff when they go out and pick up herbs and the like on the upcoming trip!

[shiftedshape]

Slightly distressed look at the 12 hour shifts Claire r u ok

[helenite]

alice will talk about:


1. private rooms

suggest wardens take turns sleeping in the dorms like william is already doing (she assumes probably incorrectly he doesn't just want to KEEP DOING THIS FOREVER!!) to cover safety concerns

points out that the side cabins don't have private showers & suggest designating one of the empty main warden cabins as a permanently unlocked private bathroom / chill spot or whatever.

2. miss navarch if you're nasty

supports sharing the CRIMES list with inmate/warden if an inmate requests it

raises concern about that being shared automatically — seems counterproductive to trust issues (see volk's not wanting med deets shared)

3. stitch me up daddy

asks — with some concern — how widespread people think needs going unaddressed are. other than volk clearly

otherwise defers to dr claire esq

4. loading bay door

asks — with some interest — how hard the loading doors crush things.

like do they think it could do a melon? maybe they should test it,

5. touching grass

expresses confusion. suggests someone show volk how the SIRE works & also run him a vitamin d blood test.

6. therapizing

significant look at loki.

buddy said it took a year: how did he decide on his goals?

7. suicide threats

oh so that's what the loading bay doors can crush —

wait: who's paired with him again?

8. a river in egypt

seriously: who's paired with him again?

[dealwiththe]

wardens bunking with inmates

Lucifer:

[returnjourney]

Just a heads up for wardens discussing using an empty warden cabin for as a private bathroom/space:

- Cabin doors can only be opened by their owners (or people they've granted access to.) Wardens are free to offer their own cabins for this purpose, but they cannot access empty cabins.

- Doors can't be propped open; all doors on a ship have to close in case of emergencies like fire. If a shoe or something gets left in the doorway to keep it open, alarms will go off until it's amended!

Wardens are free to test this during/after their meeting!

[omniavincit]

William's fully on board with another warden joining him in the dorms (as long as it's not CLAIRE!!! no it's fine), and if anyone was like "hey, you're just a baseline human built like a twig, maybe we should get someone with powers/muscle in there" would be fine with being replaced. (But would also. Continue to sleep in the dorms.)

His cabin is available but he doesn’t want one specific inmate using it indefinitely. He’s fine with an inmate occupying it temporarily—if they’re having a shitty week or something. Also doesn’t mind inmates showering there but he’ll have the key…a lil gross.

He’s gonna ask Grace about breaking into unused cabins and opening them from the inside then propping them open, but he won’t bring this up to the wardens as a whole. (And lmao it ultimately won't work...BUT I'M SURE FUN TIMES WILL BE HAD.)

Perks up at her questions about the loading bay doors.

Maybe we should introduce inmates to the SIRE, just in general.

He'd also bring up that he's a graduated inmate and be open to questions (as well as touch on some stuff I'll put in a separate comment).

He'd ask Alice about her magic, how it works and what she can do--specifically with Volk's list in mind but he could easily get distracted by other stuff ahahahahahaha.

[spanning]

re: loading bay door

alice, no

[shiftedshape]

6. LOL uh. His goal was to graduate. He had a vague idea of the Shittiest things he'd done and tried to. Think about them. A lot. And feel bad. But that was all stuff he came to on his own. His warden often actually got annoyed that Loki was so concerned about graduating and how to go about it, so...it was kind of up to him to figure it out.

which worked out but boy would that not be great for like, sooo many people

[counterstep]

icly bucky doesn't have a lot of reasons to feel there has to be change, but he's not against it if it helps. he's more concerned in the aspect of how this can be means for manipulation. not everything that seems reasonable on the surface should be taken at face value, and he's more aware of that historically than pretty much anyone else even from his own universe. especially knowing these are from volk, he would find it to be nothing short of manipulation since volk has only ever been self-serving in all his posts. he hasn't really had a visible history of considering anyone but himself, and even doing this doesn't guarantee any trust from him.

transparency is good, but a lot of the other inmates haven't really shown initiative to cooperate either, even given any improvements to their situation. yes, it's important to have their trust, but it should probably still be some quid pro quo and not weighted solely for the benefit of inmates. beyond medical being available, bucky really has no ic reason to think any of these changes would be beneficial to all parties.

from an ooc standpoint, that concerns me too since it seems like there's a heavy imbalance of characters wanting to just make things nicer for inmates with how nice things already are; inmates can literally wander around unsupervised. the ship is supposedly one of a preexisting program, so trying to justify a whole list of improvements to a program that's existed long before anyone of our characters showed up feels really weird to me too. the wardens had to agree to being a warden before joining, so then to some degree they already agreed to the conditions for the inmates.

maybe i'm just missing something? it just feels really presumptuous to directly challenge a program a warden signed on to benefit from. i know i'm probably the outlier here though, so idk.

[omniavincit]

Just here to talk on the ooc front for a minute: I think those are totally valid concerns. Despite playing a character who naturally aligns himself with inmates (he just was one!) and will go to great lengths to help them/make sure they're heard, on an ooc level I really don't want the game to veer into wardens lavishing luxuries on inmates or inmates and wardens living cozily side by side. I want conflict, and growth through conflict! Icly William may be like "why NOT let the inmates live in empty rooms/my room (lol)" but oocly I love the dorms as a mechanic (everyone packed uncomfortably into one place and farting on each other!) and if anything will work to make sure that's not undermined.

I know it sucks to play a hardline warden in this position--it's easy for them to look like the asshole when other wardens are like "why not simply give the inmates everything they want." But, obviously, what inmates want isn't always what's best for them. I really appreciate that you're sticking to Bucky's ic perspective, and I think that's what we're all doing here--engaging with this on an ic level. (AND HONESTLY if things get to be too love-and-hugs for me I'll approach the mods about it ahahahahahaha.)

[rank1]

While I’m not currently playing a warden, to chime in on this ooc as a mod — I agree that wardens did sign up for a particular system. While they are certainly free to attempt whatever changes they’d like, it is my personal feeling (and intent with this game) that characters are called wardens and inmates for a reason.

While inmates may feel the way they’re being treated is unjust (and do have some legitimate qualms re: due process and all), we don’t accept inmates exclusively for self-esteem reasons or trauma recovery — they might benefit from some, sure, but they are criminals, murderers, manipulators, etc. This isn’t a sleep away camp.

IC, wardens may not be aware of the particulars of any given inmate’s story (yet) and thus be charmed by this group of rogues, but they’ve been told they are redeeming people who have done heinous things that have warranted them being prisoners. While radical compassion may come natural to some wardens, if wardens choose to prioritize comfort, it might just bite them in the ass. Like, is it wise to give inmates you don’t know who are asking for drug access free run of the infirmary? Do inmates really need a private space where they can plot, do violences, etc when they already have showers? What if you give a friendly inmate the benefit of the doubt but then discover they obliterate people for funsies? All of these things can make for fun stumbling blocks for wardens who have good intentions but haven’t quite figured out how to warden.

It’s also important to strike a balance OOC, because having a large number of very permissive wardens who give inmates anything they ask for leads to situations where inmates can’t cause trouble or challenge the wardens it themselves. If you behave, you get things handed to you, so there’s no incentive to do anything but! Comfortable compliance becomes expected.

While some inmates may prefer to take advantage of that route, it does make it hard for a) inmate players whose characters will simply comply to get what they want and then coast, and b) inmate players whose characters need to learn boundaries and need conflict to grow, and want to build initial resistance or even rejection of the idea of redemption. I’ve done an 18 month long redemption arc in this kind of setting before — it’s actually super hard to play redemption arcs in an environment that is geared towards stripping away hierarchy and minimizes reminders that they Fucked Up Big Time. All things considered, these are pretty swanky prison conditions. It’s important to maintain boundaries, because an inmate who is not taken to task for their crimes can generally just cruise.

So if it feels like things are trending far too much towards a status quo where things get tricky, we’ll throw some wrenches in the setting or coordinate some plots to facilitate inmate shenanigans. But until then, I’m very happy to see wardens trying to negotiate what they can do in the setting :)

[expectaspectre]

Grace will be there!! She'll hate it because she thinks her presence will ruin everything, but she'll be there.

Probably the only thing she would disagree with on principle is the infirmary one. She kind of thinks that it's something Wardens should handle for their inmates, if only because wardens should be made to be more responsible over their inmates. Feel free to get into an argument with her about how it wouldn't work out that way and would only end up with wardens getting their inmates injured or withholding medical treatment as punishment or whatever scenario she wouldn't think about because That Would Never Actually Occur To Her.

Also she'd be curious to hear more from the Navarch on all of the above, but would absolutely refuse to be the one who has to interact with her. That would end poorly.

[nineteenfortyfive]

Claire would (kindly!!! don't get scared Grace) point out that there's been an incident with an unpaired inmate scurrying off somewhere, so she wouldn't want an unpaired inmate to somehow not get infirmary access/medical care just because they don't have a pairing. Also if an inmate wants to come in and get some aspirin for a headache or something, it shouldn't need to be escalated to their warden, just whoever is on duty.

[spanning]

aki will be of the opinion that:

1. a warden should be posted at the inmate dorms, preferably at least two; don't enable the rest
2. if an inmate wants to argue their case, they can go through a warden or talk to archimedes. aki would also really like a list of what any inmate is charged with, but doesn't see why inmates should have free access to the files
3. inmates shouldn't have unsupervised access to the infirmary. otherwise, also deferring to dr claire
4. he can't help with the doors, but will offhandedly point out inmates aren't supposed to be in the loading bay anyway (yeah, he knows this makes it more tempting in its way)
5. go sit in the observatory if you want to see a sun (LMAO sorry)
6. damn, volk is going through some seriously prolonged denial. also expresses some interest in how long things typically take
7. is someone watching volk or at least the loading bay doors
8. did they just read/watch a guy have a breakdown in 8 points, uhhh

[omniavincit]

go sit in the observatory if you want to see a sun oh you

[omniavincit]

Thisssssss is probably gonna be long and I suck at formatting, so apologies in advance.

Initial reactions to the meeting:

- Brief existential crisis over satan arriving and immediately CALLING A MEETING, is he dead? Is this hell?
- Who is watching the inmates during the warden meeting?? William tries to use this as an excuse not to attend


Volk's List:

- He agrees with: an extra warden in the dorms (or two??? If anyone’s like “you’re just a baseline human, we need to replace you with someone with powers” he will agree but also WON’T SLEEP IN HIS CABIN AHAHAHA)

- Also: at least one warden in the loading bay (to watch them doors) and one in the storage complex (to keep Theos out). Ideally two, not least because then you guys can chat to pass the time. (ICly he might propose everyone rotate through these positions but OOCly that would be a logistical nightmare, so.)

- He’s willing to solicit questions from inmates and (after vetting them, which inmates will be told is happening) livestream a convo where he asks the Navarch them (obviously the Navarch would need to be open to this!)

- As a graduated inmate, can address: execution if you fail to reform (yikes), going back home, files--what they contain and when they're issued (although oocly this will be a little iffy because the file's contents vary with the player). He could ask the Navarch for a copy of his old file as an example (again, the Navarch would need to be open to this)

- Relatedly: do other inmates think they’re getting executed? Has anyone watched the inmate orientation video?

- Would attempt to talk about suicidal ideation with inmates, but at the first sign of someone being flippant/inattentive/skeptical, would probably shut down.

- Would take any other questions about himself/the process

- Do people with MAGIC POWERS have any MAGIC that could help with list items (is this just an excuse to talk about magic??? he's a warden, HE'LL ASK THE QUESTIONS)


Misc:

- Do any of you know how to use your guns, should we be training (will not look at Alice during this)

- Likewise how Avros work, will offer to fly wardens or inmates around or give flying lessons to wardens

- Uhhhh maybe someone should teach Lucifer about human physiology? (Will realize how this sounds 2 seconds too late)

- Will want to just talk about everyone’s temps, what they’re like, how things are going


OOCLY: William is very pro-inmate and permissive in a lot of ways (he believes strongly in information sharing and affording people choices) and I allllllllways welcome IC pushback on this. (And icly he's pretty open to criticism as well, as long as it seems to him like it's offered in good faith.)

PLEASE feel free to question him, his methods, etc. If it ever reaches a point where like, his playability is at stake, I'll talk to you and ask you to dial it back, but otherwise go for it.

AND ALSO maybe burying the lede, William is currently talking to Volk about this. I don't think there'll be a problem finessing timelines (and I anticipate the thread being more Volk-focused than the meeting).

[dealwiththe]

I’ll absolutely have more substantive thoughts about this later when I’m not at work i just have to say

The second william makes any kind of comment about lucifer and human physiology there will be a 100% chance of a sexual innuendo

You walked right into that one buddy

[saklas]

[whispers] im so sorry about my embarrassing son

[omniavincit]

ARE YOU

(I love him)

[grindset]

For roll call purposes: saying Viktor arrived on board just in time for this meeting, feels a little troy with pizza dot gif about it, will be attending as a particularly observant piece of background decor if at all possible.

[helenite]

this but it's the void leg

[shiftedshape]

I'M LATE but here's Loki's general thoughts/reactions, vaguely what he'd say about each thing mostly independent from what I've skimmed from everyone else:

1. "Someone should tell him there's a screen to pull to change behind does he not know that" but also yeah, blanket agreement on putting wardens on duty in the dorms. He'll push back against suggestions that any effort be made to give unpaired inmates anything more private, but he'll be vague about the specifics of why unless pressed on it.

2. "Are inmates not being told about the files that paired wardens get?" Starting to get why Volk feels frustrated if they're just not being told fucking anything, but also maybe Volk wasn't paying attention because it's "not real"

3. Yep someone should be posted at the infirmary too but it should be someone who is at all qualified for *at the very least* human beings given that is the vast majority of the people on board. Right now that is just Claire, really, which is the real issue. Loki will try to delicately point out that the issue is more maintenance of ongoing issues (i.e. psych meds) than acute injuries, given the autodoc can do so much and revival is possible, but that Volk..........definitely should not be made more aware of that last part than he already is.

4. yeah also people can sneak out, that's not great. uh. who's handy around here

5. He...still does not believe he is in space. This will hopefully resolve itself eventually???

6. Loki just exchanges a look with William like ahahaha fuck this is the worst part YEAH ACTUALLY WE CAN'T TELL ANY ONE PERSON WHAT THEY NEED TO DO??? get good, scrub. But no really, he'll talk about how different it was back on the last ship and how some people seemed to stumble into it, where he had to not only decide to actually try but then put actual work in. And then he'll point out this is a different ship and he's less worried that the Navarch is Literally Insane so it's possible if they ask, she will give them some guidance??? Worth a shot

7. Loki looks uncomfortable about this. Doesn't say anything about it directly on his own other than to comment that points 6 and 7 have him 100% certain Volk has something he's keeping secret related to his death, probably something to do with the consequences of his death, and that's contributed to his denial even as he...also threatens to make himself die anyway. (Hopefully this isn't too infomoddy? Trying to make it clear that this is based on where Volk got tripped up and Loki being king liar :T I'll poke Fire if she doesn't respond before I get to it)

8. There's not much we can do to convince him of this. He's already aware of illusion magic. He'll have to come to it on his own.

I'll go and respond to individuals prooobably tomorrow night, because I know Loki got called out at least once and he has some reactions to points others are bringing up, but this is the baseline!

[saklas]

i dont think its too infomoddy

I know since there's no wiki, that if anyone has to look shit up it has to go through my insane rambling attempts at an application as i try to put down railroad tracks in front of an already moving train???? i did NOT have volk's full backstory figured out when i started playing him........ i had what's in my app but there were a lot of holes

which part are you referring to OOC?